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National Lawyers Guild releases photo of alleged police infiltrator

The National Lawyer's Guild attorney for the three men charged with a major terrorist plot at the NATO summit in Chicago says they are being subjected to severe sensory deprivation.  On the same day, the prosecution requested, and was granted, a delay of a preliminary hearing until June 12, in order, the Chicago Tribune reports, "to give prosecutors more time to assemble the case against them."

The Chicago Tribune writes:

Michael Deutsch, an attorney for the National Lawyers Guild, said at a brief court hearing for the three that they have been held since bond hearings Saturday in “hospital-white” cells for 24 hours a day and have not been allowed to communicate with anyone.

“They are totally in isolation from everyone else in the jail and each other,” Deutsch said. “They have nothing to read. They have no writing material. It’s a kind of sensory deprivation situation.”

Even short periods of complete sensory deprivation, and being held in absence of any daylight cycles, sound, human contact, or mental stimulation such as reading, are known to cause extreme stress and can lead to permanent psychological damage.  The issue of isolation and sensory deprivation being used as a form of torture which leaves no physical marks was explored thoroughly in the case of Bradley Manning.  Stuart Grassian MD, wrote in "Psychiatric Effects of Solitary Confinement":
 "in adult rhesus monkeys even brief periods of social isolation produce compromised cognitive processing."
In testimony introduced at the trial of Fahad Hashmi in 2010, doctors said that:


"after 60 days' solitary detention people's mental state begins to break down and gradually develops into psychosis as the mind disintegrates."
The UN has called sensory deprivation and isolation a form of torture.

The activists, Brian Church, 22, of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Jared Chase, 27, of Keene, New Hampshire, and Brent Betterly, 24, from Massachusetts, had posted a video on Youtube of their harassment by Chicago Police on May 10, 2012, in which police can be heard saying "we'll come looking for you, each and every one of you."  The officers also referred to the Democratic National Convention of 1968 in Chicago by taunting "billyclub to the fucking skull."  Six days after the video was posted online, the three were arrested and then charged with a plot to attack various police stations, Rahm Emmanuel's house in Ravenwood, some banks, and Obama campaign headquarters with Molotov cocktails made out of beer bottles and bandanas.

Video posted on May 10, 2012:

 (Unedited version 27 minutes)

Police had confiscated home beer brewing equipment from the apartment where the three were staying, and after charges were handed down accusing the defendants of filling beer bottles with gasoline, the men's attorneys at the National Lawyer's Guild (NGL) released a photo of the home brewing equipment in fact filled with beer (see "3 NATO Activists Charged with Terror Plot After Posting Video of Police Harassment".)

The NGL has charged that the case has been fabricated.  Supporters say the charges are retaliation for posting the harassment video.  

In a new development, the National Lawyers Guild has released a photo of one of the two men believed to have been posing as a protester but was actually a police infiltrator, who the NLG says took part in planting weapons alleged in the indictment to be stockpiled in the apartment.  The indictment has been posted on the Internet..  

Yahoo News AP:

Defence lawyer Michael Deutsch on Saturday accused police of setting up their clients in an attempt to frighten peaceful protesters. He said undercover officers brought the firebombs to a South Side apartment where the men were arrested.
Two undercover officers, known as "Mo" and "Gloves" to the protesters,  are accused by the NLG of planting evidence.  The NLG said in a press release:
National Lawyers Guild Releases Photograph of Suspected Police Informant Involved in Terrorism-Related Cases

Chicago, IL – Investigations by the NLG have uncovered infiltration by law enforcement in each of the 5 terrorism-related cases charged so far. The NLG believes that at least two undercover police or confidential informants, “Gloves” and “Mo,” were used in a law enforcement operation that resulted in 9 arrests from a Wednesday house raid in Bridgeport as well as two additional arrests on Thursday. Gloves and Mo were apparently arrested with the 9 protesters from the house raid, but were released soon after.

The image below is of Mo as he is being arrested during an Occupy Chicago action on April 17, 2012 at 63rd & Woodlawn to protest the closure of a mental health clinic.

Photograph of “Mo,” a suspected informant involved in the NATO terrorism-related cases:  (To image uploads)

Fox News Chicago ran a report on this new turn in the story, on "Mo" and "Gloves," on May 22.  Protesters assert that "Mo" had showed up at an Occupy Chicago orientation meeting, and said he wanted to learn more about Occupy.  The protesters allege that he later tried to goad them into violence , and that after they refused, he and "Gloves" planted evidence.  The Fox News report states that the CPD did not deny the placement of undercover informants within the group of protesters which included the NATO 3, and in fact defended it as a legitimate tactic.

Among the weapons mention as found in the indictment are swords, throwing stars, hunting bows, and a mortar tube.  

Fox News Chicago

A Huffington Post alert also reports:

Attorneys representing five men charged with attempting to build bombs or make terrorist threats during the NATO summit in Chicago allege their clients were set up by undercover police officers.

Please call Cook County Department of Corrections, Sheriff Thomas Dart

Cook County Sheriff’s Office
50 W. Washington
Chicago, Illinois  60602
(312) 603-6444

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414

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Comment Preferences

  •  The culture of obedience, to which our (11+ / 0-)

    agents of law enforcement increasingly subscribe, does not accept that individual behavior is presumably good, unless and until it is proved to have been bad, after the fact.
    Perhaps the acceptance of the notion of crime prevention is to blame.  And crime prevention, in turn, justifies the employment of many more agents of law enforcement than we actually need.
    Also, there's the problem that idealists, perhaps in response of a pervasive sense of insecurity and unease, take the intent for the act, so that, instead of having to deal with evidence and collecting fact, agents of law enforcement can consider their suspicion to be sufficient. It's a lot easier to just arrest "suspects" -- i.e. persons who "don't look right" or fail to be compliant.

    For some reason, our agents of government do not seem to understand that their positions come with duties and obligations which, because they have taken an oath and get paid, they have to perform.  That is, the agents of government have an obligation to be compliant. That the citizens who govern have no such obligation doesn't seem to register.  
    Perhaps the culture of obedience is perceived as abusive and so, as is typical of abuse, the cops feel compelled to pass it on.  "If I have to be compliant, then citizens have to do what I tell them."  If that's the case, then what we have here is a failure of organization -- a failure in understanding what it means to serve.

    People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

    by hannah on Wed May 23, 2012 at 03:22:48 AM PDT

    •  I don't think it's just obedience. (8+ / 0-)

      I think it's also that "innocent till proven guilty" has been stood on its head and that torture, reframed in medieval terms as the most direct way to strike "truth" from a suspect, has become routine.

      It doesn't help that the last two administrations use(d) and defend(ed) indefinite detention and that torture, while foresworn, has gone unpunished.

      We, as a society, have gone far down the path of impunity for acts that a government by the people should never condone, much less employ or defend.

      "The pump don't work 'cause the vandals took the handles." Subterranean Homesick Blues, Bob Dylan

      by psnyder on Wed May 23, 2012 at 06:01:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  dailykos needs to keep on top of repression of 99% (27+ / 0-)

    protests are now world wide

    the economy is not getting better

    the billionaires are even more greedy

    the environment collapse will cause major change

    these issues are more important than etch a sketch

  •  How F@#ing convenient! (17+ / 0-)

    1:  Send undercover police or informants to infiltrate a group.

    2:  Have the UCP/informants bring / do something illegal.

    3:  Arrest everyone associated with the group.

    4:  Release the UCP/informants.

    5:  ......

    6:  Profit!!!

    Interesting how the precious holy 'Constitution' is a f#$#ing fairy tale.


    The Fail will continue until actual torches and pitchforks are set in motion. -

    by No one gets out alive on Wed May 23, 2012 at 05:25:52 AM PDT

  •  Couple things (17+ / 0-)

    That whole jail is a human rights violation, they're better off in solitary.

    The jail is run by the Cook County Sheriff, CPD has nothing to do with it. They'd be the better contact.

  •  It's only partial sensory (4+ / 0-)

    deprivation. They can still smell things, and can touch things. They can listen, and if there are no sounds they can make sounds with their voice or by banging things with their hands. So that's 3 senses. Obviously, unless they are blindfolded, they can see, so that's 4. The only one left I think is the sense of taste, and that's where I doubt he's not being deprived, based on how bad the food is. He definitely is losing much of that sense, and probably smell as well, since all he really has to smell is himself. I'd say they're losing about 40% of their sensory inputs, but definitely it's a lot less than 100%. I'm not saying in any way that it's still not harsh to endure, but it isn't quite like being put in one of those sensory deprivation tanks.

  •  They should be treated fairly and humanely, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    . . . I wouldn't go hitching the progressive bandwagon to these guys.  At worst, they are indeed terrorists -- for what else would you call those plotting firebomb attacks?  But even at BEST, they are idiot anarchists who willingly went along with a plot hatched by someone else.  In either case, let's not deify these guys just yet, okay?  And let's be accurate -- they are charged not only with making Molotov cocktails, but also with having a bizarre assortment of weapons (throwing and hunting knives, Chinese stars, and even a freaking crossbow) and body armor.   Strange luggage for peaceful out-of-state protesters, no?   I have zero patience or sympathy for any of these "activists" with an anarchist bent who would embrace violence.  We'll see what happens to the case, of course, but just as we shouldn't summarily execute these guys, we also shouldn't be so quick to exonerate them, either.

    Oh, and the whole "beer making equipment" thing is a complete red herring -- the beer making equipment is not part of the charges  or even mentioned in the court filings.   All I'm saying is that we should at least be accurate.

    And if they are guilty, they should be set adrift in the middle of the lake on stupidity grounds alone.

    •  Isn't saying "at best, they are idiot anarchists (17+ / 0-)

      who willingly went along with a plot hatched" kind of summarily judging them without all the facts in? Unless of course you're relying completely on facts supplied by the police.

      "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Wed May 23, 2012 at 07:01:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So if they're convicted by a jury you'll TOTALLY (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        believe they were participating in terror activity, right?

      •  They're claiming they were "entrapped" (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Inland, Quicklund, Don midwest

        They're not, this far, denying any knowledge or involvement, and even if it was someone else's idea, there appear to be tapes of them discussing the plot.  So even if someone else (like an informer) brought up the idea, they still went along.  So, at best, then, they are idiot anarchists without an ounce of intelligence.  So, I agee -- let's not hang them as terrorists yet.   Let's give them a fair trial and THEN hang them for being idiot mutts who undermine every progressive cause through their stupidity.

        •  I haven't seen the evidence that "they went (7+ / 0-)

          along".  Their lawyer is indicating that's not the case.  Do you have specific information regarding that?  

          "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

          by BigAlinWashSt on Wed May 23, 2012 at 07:42:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course the defense attorney is saying that. (5+ / 0-)

            Just like of course the prosecutor is saying that they did go along with the plan.  Until we have the opportunity to see what evidence there is, we have no idea what happened.  

            We've been talking about this case for days, and it's been nothing but speculation.  There's the version where there were no bomb-making materials at all and the whole story was just made up.  Then there's the version where the three defendants were involved in making the bombs, but they'd been coaxed into doing it by undercover agents.  And then there's the version where the three defendants had no knowledge of the bombs, which were planted in the apartment by undercover agents.  And finally, there's the version where the three defendants did exactly what they're accused of doing, with no coercion being necessary.  And none of us here can say with any certainty which version of the story is true.

            I know, I know, we're not a patient group.

        •  Alternative pleading = totally appropriate. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I know it seems like cognitive dissonance, but legally speaking, pleading alternative (even inconsistent) defenses is standard practice.  Defendants (in both civil and criminal cases) can and often do plead "in the alternative."  In other words, a defendant can simultaneously argue:  (a) I didn't do it; and (b) even if you believe I did do it, I am not culpable because of [one ore more affirmative defense(s)].

          Moreover, I don't even think there's a dissonance between the two arguments here.  I think the claim being made is (1) the police tried to entrap otherwise peaceful protestors, and (2) the protestors didn't take the bait, so the CIs planted evidence against them.

          Alternative Pleading

        •  They and the others in the apartment did not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          "go along."  Stop repeating that.  You are lying.  They are denying it, and saying, through their lawyer, they were set up.

          Yahoo News AP

          More activists charged related to NATO summit...Prosecutors said the two men charged Sunday have no connection to Church, Chase or Betterly. But defense attorneys said there is a common thread: "Mo" and "Gloves." They allege that the two befriended all five of the charged activists and appeared to steer them into activities that could be perceived as illegal.

          "Mo" and "Gloves" began befriending activists in the Chicago area in early May and were present when Church, Chase or Betterly were arrested, Gelsomino said. She said many activists in Chicago for the NATO protests knew "Mo" and "Gloves" — a man and a woman — and are now worried they could also be arrested.

          Critics say filing terrorism-related charges against protesters is reminiscent of previous police actions ahead of major political events, when authorities moved quickly to prevent suspected plots but sometimes quietly dropped the charges later....

      •  Heh. that's THEIR ATTORNEYS version of facts. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Quicklund, highfive, sviscusi

        They are the ones asserting that undercover cops "set them up".  

        If true, that means two things: a possible entrapment defense, and that the accused were the type of people to be seduced into violence by fast talkers.   The first gets them acquitted and the second makes condemnable as people who easily lose their moral compass.

        Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

        by Inland on Wed May 23, 2012 at 07:57:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's symptomatic. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, highfive, sviscusi, Reggid

      It's how OWS disappeared: it became mostly about confronting police and dividing up teams between good protesters and bad cops.

      So the people who see "a protestor" as per se on the side of the angels are really getting into whether there's a valid warrant, or whether there was entrapment.  Well, sure, those are good legal defenses.   But people who escape conviction on fourth amendment grounds are still fucking assholes who should be condemned, and that is what's not happening because it doesn't fit into this dead end manichean narrative.

      Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

      by Inland on Wed May 23, 2012 at 08:11:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OWS on DK at least became 99% Cops R Bad (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        highfive, Catte Nappe, Reggid

        When the OWS diaries here shifted from legitimate protests against wealth inequalities to breathless condemnations of police forces in general, many Kossacks were vocal in asking for the police-bashing to stop.

        Well, winter is over and OWS is extinct. All we've heard this year is Cops R Bad!

        Congratulations, Black Bloc, wannabies, and boosters. You've killed the OWS brand name.

      •  This is a ridiculous statement and really (5+ / 0-)

        makes me fearful of the future.  

        But people who escape conviction on fourth amendment grounds are still fucking assholes who should be condemned, and that is what's not happening because it doesn't fit into this dead end manichean narrative.
        You make it sound like the constitution is a fucking technicality.  Right now we have dueling accusations.  The protestors claim that the undercover cops brought the weapons and planted the evidence.  The cops say they were planning this on their own.  The 4th amendment is designed to set rules to handle disputes just like this.  The 4th amendment is not a technicality.  Its a recogition that law enforcement power left unchecked will be abused. Here we have protestors claiming the exact abuse the 4th amendment is meant to protect against, and some Dem poster labeling the exercise of consititutional rights as a "technicality."  Lol
        •  Completely amoral of you. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Acquittal is a price we pay to enforce the constitution but refusing to condemn is amoral.  Oliver North got his conviction thrown out but that doesn't make him less of an asshole, right?
          entrapment or a lack of warrant does not make anyone a hero.

          Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

          by Inland on Wed May 23, 2012 at 10:29:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you're arguing past each other (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Don midwest

            burlydee wrote:  "The protestors claim that the undercover cops brought the weapons and planted the evidence."

            If that claim is true, then the defendants did nothing wrong and shouldn't be viewed negatively because of this episode.  But that's not so much a 4th Amendment issue, I think, as it is a police frame-up issue.

            •  That's not the constitution (0+ / 0-)

              Planting evidence means there never was an intent to use violence.  That has nothing to do with claiming entrapment or an illegal search.

              Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

              by Inland on Wed May 23, 2012 at 10:39:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  How can I condemn? I don't even know the facts, (0+ / 0-)

            neither do you.

    •  stop demonizing anarchy, please. Anarchism is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Don midwest, Ralph Lopez

      not violent. There is nothing about the philosophy of anarchism which makes it violent.

      Like every philosophy, there may be people who claim to hold said philosophy who are also violent.

      Most of the anarchists I have met are anti-authoritarian, but for this very reason: they don't believe in people using force over one another. So, they might resist being coerced by force, but they would never instigate violence. They would help others who are being subjected to violence. BUt they would not instigate violence.

      I know people familiar with one of the defendants. None of us believe much about this story which the authorities are putting out.

      We will presume innocent. Until they are proven guilty with a fair trial. That's supposed to be a tenet of justice.

    •  They did not go along. In fact they refused and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      at this point the evidence was planted, according to counsel.  Protesters by now are well-used to provocateurs and expect them.  They make jokes about who is a cop among themselves.

      Combined with the outlandishness of the charges, and the fact that the traffic stop is not being mentioned by CPD, as well as what we know to be the previous willingness of some in law enforcement to violate their most solemn trust and lie and frame people, we need to be all over this like a cheap suit.  How do you attack a police station with a Molotov cocktail these days?  See that big brick building with the bars on the windows and the surveillance cameras all around?  Throw this baby at it and run!  They are alleged to have planned to "recruit" four groups of four people each to do these things.  Approach perfect strangers who doesn't know you from Adam and ask him to do something that will get you life or the death penalty.  Real terror cells have a far more elaborate recruiting process than that.

      If a policeman runs out, throw this star at him!  Throwing stars require years of martial arts training to use effectively.  The whole indictment reads like a comic book and at some point we need to introduce healthy skepticism and ask - does this have anything to do with them posting that video of the unconstitutional search six days earlier?  They were doing a three-point turn and were fully searched including having the trunk opened (when defendant says in the video "if you find any money in there let us know, we're pretty broke.")

      I want anyone who would do violence at a protest punished, because I am an activist and they make us all look bad.  So far all I have seen are reports of provocateurs (big guys who look like cops who lift weights thinking they look like anarchists if they put on a tie-dye t-shirt -ha, anarchists are scrawny kids, they're all vegans) and protesters reporting them themselves.  

      All I'm saying is this case doesn't pass the smell test.

  •  Pretty hyperbolic (9+ / 0-)

    Sensory deprivation really exists, and it is torture. What these guys are experiencing is neither. They seem to be in solitary confinement in a jail. Not pleasant by any means. But not torture. And not sensory deprivation.

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Wed May 23, 2012 at 08:10:44 AM PDT

    •  And solitary confinement... (0+ / 0-)

      ...might not be such a bad idea, really.  Three white guys who are accused of trying to firebomb the Obama campaign headquarters?  

    •  A "hospital white" cell with no windows and (0+ / 0-)

      no indication of night or day (do they turn off the lights?), no sound, no human contact, nothing to read or write with or do, 24/7 is severe sensory deprivation.  It will make you crazy in two days and after that you begin to lose your mind.  It is the attorney who used the words "sensory deprivation", which is according to the UN a form of torture.  They don't need to have blackout goggles and ear covers for it to constitute sensory deprivation.  

      You do not know if they terms are hyperbole or not, nor do I.  You or I are not sitting in that cell.  I do know that they have been convicted of nothing and are presumed innocent, and so this is wrong.

      Worse, they were granted bail, $1.5 million a-piece, and would be free but for the amount.  In other words, in addition to the many questions in the case, the only reason they are undergoing this treatment right now is because they belong to the class of people who cannot cough up this kind of money.  Despicable.

      •  The attorney used different words (0+ / 0-)

        "It's a kind of..." Intended to inflame emotions - and it seems to have worked, eh?  

        Nowhere do I see him saying the lights are on 24/7, only that the room is white. Nowhere do I see him saying "no human contact", they just can't visit among themselves or with other inmates. It's a local jail, not a supermax prison for gosh sakes. Such places have plenty of audible stimuli. They presumably are getting the usual three crappy meals a day and have human contact from guards then, and maybe at other times. I would bet the lights are turned out nightly, probably earlier than they would care to if running their own schedule.

        If it were, in fact, actual sensory deprivation I am 100% sure that lawyer wouldn't be using wiggle words of "it's a kind of..." So yes, your title and content are hyperbole. It disrespects and diminishes the circumstances of those who truly are being tortured or who have experienced actual torture. It would be like me squalling  "hunger!" "starvation!" because all I had for lunch was a banana and some corn chips.

        from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

        by Catte Nappe on Wed May 23, 2012 at 01:42:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And nowhere do we see him saying that (0+ / 0-)

          the lights are not on 24/7.  He says they are in the cell "24 hours a day and have not been allowed to communicate with anyone."  That sounds like no human contact to me.

          But anyway I am glad you are happy to assume that it's not too bad for them from behind your keyboard.  Certainly people who stand up for the rights of the accused like that are what made America great.  

          There are many things about their conditions we don't know at this point, but any hint of using isolation and sensory deprivation as a means of breaking down an accused should set off alarms.  We have seen this before, in the case of Bradley Manning, and Fahad Hashmi.  Hauling someone into a courtroom as a disoriented, confused mess, who just wants to make it stop, is a great way to get a plea when you have no case.  

  •  Many jail or pre-trial detention facilities (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Sean X

    put new inmates, especially ones where the defendants have not been in the system before in isolation cells or cells without anything that could be used for suicide. What is happening in this case doesn't sound uncommon even though it is horrible. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that these young men are being deliberately "tortured" until you know whether this is substantially different treatment. I'm not saying it is right, just that it doesn't just become torture when applied to Occupiers after it has been used indiscriminately for years on other people.

    “You can only become truly accomplished at something you love. Don't make money your goal. Instead, pursue the things you love doing, and then do them so well that people can't take their eyes off you...” - Maya Angelou

    by stellaluna on Wed May 23, 2012 at 08:29:11 AM PDT

  •  When metaphor is reported as fact (6+ / 0-)
    “They are totally in isolation from everyone else in the jail and each other,” Deutsch said. “They have nothing to read. They have no writing material. It’s a kind of sensory deprivation situation.”
    Being in a solo room w/o reading materials or writing materials is not "sensory deprivation". Even if their lawyer chooses to use that term as a metaphor. Even if the walls are painted white.

    The background information does not claim the suspects are denied "all human contact". The information indicates the suspects are not allowed to communicate with each other or with other prisoners. This is SOP with most any suspects to prevent the formation of coordinated alibis.

    Since the diary does on to detail the maladies tied to  genuine sensory deprivation, I can only assume the diarist does not understand that metahpor is not meant to be taken literally.

    So I conclude this diary shares the same fatal flaw as so many other anti-police diaries found on DK: the abandonment of facts in order to hype a melodramatic and distorted picture.

    •  Here is another fact. (0+ / 0-)

      You can use the torture of sensory deprivation to "soften up" an accused who has done nothing, to give him a taste of what's to come if he decides not to make a deal, plea to a lower charge in case you think your case won't stand the scrutiny of a trial.  By the time he is an a court, he is ready to say anything.

      You don't understand sensory deprivation.  In a closed room with only artificial light and no sound, no comforts, you don't know what time it is.  You begin not to if two hours have passed or two days.  You have nothing to read, do, or write with.  This is simply cruel and unusual, all before you have been convicted of a single thing.  One or two day isolation is dreaded in prisons, which is why it works as discipline.  I've read of prisoners saying they would rather take a beating.

  •  Bozos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nada Lemming, Sean X

    I am a retired federal prosecutor, and these bozos are clearly overcharged.  They did not know that you do not make Molotov cocktails out of beer bottles as they are too hard to break.  Pros use wine bottles.  This is a classical situation of the informant running the cop-bad things always happen.

  •  The Movement Needs to Positively ID (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nada Lemming, BigAlinWashSt

    each and every person involved in organization or planning at a level that would be useful for LE to infiltrate.  We should be routinely photographing and doing meticulous background checks on everyone involved above a certain level and that information held securely where it cannot be reached by authorities.  It sucks, but nothing short of that will disincentivize infiltration by plants.

    Then if we later discover we've been infiltrated, we can out the informants publicly and release clear photos, descriptions and all their personal information, exposing them to... well let your imagination be your guide.

    I'm not sure undercover agents will want to face that.  

    Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

    by Kurt Sperry on Wed May 23, 2012 at 08:49:19 AM PDT

    •  Wow. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AZ Sphinx Moth, sviscusi

      You see no irony in your post?

      Obama 2012

      by jiffypop on Wed May 23, 2012 at 09:40:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Irony? Perhaps. (0+ / 0-)

        What terrifies the security state above all else is that they might someday be held accountable, that they cannot safely do their evil anonymously and unaccountably from the dark corners they prefer to inhabit.  Why do you think virtually all authoritarian crimes against citizens are inevitably hidden behind multiple layers of official state secrecy? Why do uniformed cops tape over their badges when they know they are likely to commit serious crimes in public view? They know full well very little of what they do would survive critical scrutiny by an informed electorate. Much of what they do in fact consists of serious criminal acts like systematically violating citizens' Constitutional rights, using agents provocateurs, obstructing justice and planting false evidence.

        The little foot soldiers in this war on the citizenry, like law enforcement sent to infiltrate and frame and smear nonviolent leftist groups, depend on this cloak of secrecy to operate. And this war on legitimate dissent often requires these foot soldiers acting anonymously to operate.

        In a better world we wouldn't need to take extreme precautions against state criminality by undercover agents but until we build that better world, then we should and perhaps we must.  

        Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

        by Kurt Sperry on Wed May 23, 2012 at 11:01:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's why I'm starting to listen more to XM 166 (0+ / 0-)

    The threat to Americans is coming more from government  tyranny than the ideology they use to divide us into L and R.   Alex Jones may over-hype sometimes,  but so do the government and MSM.    Congress just passed a law to make it legal for government to bull shxt us.   This stuff needs more exposure and less muzzling and it happens more and more regardless of which Party is in power.  

    Typically if I'm in the car in the afternoon I listen to either XM - 124 POTUS,   Left Radio 127, or America Talk 166 Alex Jones.    

    Victims of bigotry are the poorest, least influential members of society.......never the wealthiest, most educated, most overrepresented in high levels, and most influential. Bigotry hurts the least influential. To claim or say otherwise is absurd.

    by dailykozzer on Wed May 23, 2012 at 09:04:18 AM PDT

  •  Remember Tea Party hassled by police? Tyranny (3+ / 0-)

    Interesting point in the first paragraph of the article

    "This Is What Tyranny Looks Like"

    Tea party folks took guns to political rallies.

    OWS takes back packs or maybe a helmet to block a blow to the head.

    We are seeing police state tactics with our militarized police.

    Here is the article which prompted this comment.

  •  Presumed innocent. When someone is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave, Don midwest

    arrested we are supposed to presume innocence.

    It is possible that they are not guilty of anything.

    Of even having said weapons.

    But even if they had weapons and even if they might have thought about doing something with them, are we now saying that we can arrest and convict people on intentions?

    What if they got themselves all worked up, gathered some shit together and were thinking they might do something but they never actually did it? Are they guilty of anything?

    There has been no harm done, that I can tell. So, what exactly are they guilty of, even if all the claims are true?

    •  Landlord of apartment told Fox News (0+ / 0-)

      as long as some commenters here already treating them as guilty, prejudicing the case...

      Activist Bill Vassilakis, who said he let the men stay in his apartment, described Betterly as an industrial electrician who had volunteered to help wire service at The Plant, a former meat packing facility that has been turned into a food incubator with the city's backing.

      Vassilakis said he thought the charges were unwarranted.

      "All I can say about that is, if you knew Brent, you would find that to be the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard," he said. "He was the most stand-up guy that was staying with me. He and the other guys had done nothing but volunteer their time and energy."

      Read more:
  •  If a person can't afford bail (0+ / 0-)

    Solo in a cell with nothing but a camera, a stainless steel toilet-sink combo, a thin mattress, and two blankets to keep a person company after arrest - is the norm in many jails. For days.

    I think it's to soften them up mentally and emotionally before seeing a judge but I'm sure there's another excuse.

  •  They should be put in with the general population. (0+ / 0-)

    ...who I'm sure are members of the 99%.

    Obama 2012

    by jiffypop on Wed May 23, 2012 at 11:10:27 AM PDT

  •  It's happening... First it was just foreigners and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Muslims, then US Muslims, now US citizens of any stripe that dare to protest.

    There's two kinds of people at this point.  Those that still think every case is a local aberration, and those that see a worsening trend.

    Anybody know what happened about those folks in Minneapolis?

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